Why is it okay to slam the Catholic Church?

To disclaim before I begin: I am an ex-Catholic. That being said, I have no problem with anyone who is Catholic simply because they are Catholic-- coming from the extremely Catholic city of Philadelphia, over 3/4 of my friends are Catholic (case in point: when one Philadelphian is meeting another, he/she generally doesn't ask "What part of Philly are you from?" Rather, he/she asks, "What parish are you from?").

However, I think you're arguments presented here are quite flawed; not because you defend Catholicism, but because you simply have far too many logical fallacies in the arguments themselves.

I thought that Democrats championed people of any religion, any background, any race. Boy, was I wrong! I look around the blogosphere and see blogs like Pandagon, where Amanda (ex-official blogmistress of John (I hate Catholics) Edwards) goes on and on forever about the Catholic Church forcing women to have babies.

Welcome to the Internet. This has to be the worst generalization I've ever seen-- basing your entire opinion of the Democratic Party on the personal views of one person? FYI, I'm not a Democrat. I'm a civil libertarian, and I believe you have every right to have your religion and express your views, but I also believe I have every right to challenge them.

And then, there are people here on newsvine.com who hate the Catholic Church.

What happened to the liberal idea of tolerance?

Is it possible it doesn't really exist?

Or is hating Catholics the one safe bigotry left to liberals? After all, I have not seen any nuns chopping the heads off of people.

I'm sorry, but you simply don't make any sense. Liberalism is extremely pro-religious freedom. And once again, calling all liberals "bigots" because of the views of a few people is extremely flawed.

Personally, I have no problems with the Catholic religion. I'm extremely, extremely against the Church's stances on gay rights, and I will be very vocal in expressing my distaste at the Church for this position. However, attacking the views of an organization hardly makes me a bigot against that organization-- the connection between an attack on views and an ad hominem attack on the organization itself is extremely thin.

Catholics are pro-life - is that the problem? Liberals hate us because we revere life?

I'm anti-abortion in most cases; however, "we revere life" is not my argument. Look, both sides of the abortion debate have their pros and cons, and it certainly is not an easy issue. However, you're simply being nonsensical if you only believe your side is right and you have no concept of the other side.

Or is it charity? Catholics are pretty darn charitable - and you don't have to be Catholic to be a recipient of Catholic Community Services, you just have to have a need.

Non sequitur. No relation to the argument at hand.

Or maybe they hate us because we believe there is such a thing as sin?

Still mostly non sequitur, sin is a religious concept, and politicians, liberal or not, aren't going to be looking to religious concepts to see if they "hate" a religion. Furthermore, every religion has a concept like that of sin, and you won't be finding any politicians, liberal or not, who aren't religious, so how can you claim that liberals "hate" Catholics on a principle that they themselves hold?

I don't know. But I do know that I'm no longer a Democrat. I'm no longer a liberal - why on earth would I want to be identified with a bunch of people who hate me for my religion. Who hate all Catholics?

Once again, we return to the root. You say "a bunch of people"-- referencing liberals-- "hate all Catholics." Find me a reasonable survey or poll stating that even a simply majority-- hell, even 20%-- of liberals "hate all Catholics." I'm sorry, but you won't. Because it simply isn't true.

I'm not trying to persuade you to "reconvert" to liberalism-- like I've said, I'm not even a liberal myself. However, I can't sit back and watch someone make such rash generalizations about a group of people on the personal beliefs of a few.

If we always made these generalizations, where would we be? We'd live in a world where "every American is a fundamentalist Protestant" (well, our leader is, so we must be), "every technology is evil" (hey, the Internet can be used to distribute child pornography, so all technology must be evil), and "knives can only be used as deadly weapons" (you know that movie where the guy kills another guy with a kitchen knife? yeah, that's why).

See what I mean? When we make hasty generalizations about organizations, peoples, or even things, we lose sight of what really matters. Truth be told, most pro-abortion Democrats aren't "anti-life." They are doing what they believe is best for their country. At the same time, anti-gay Republicans truly believe that their stance protects "family values."

We all have good intentions. Denying these intentions hurts all of us.

Catholics are pro-life - is that the problem? Liberals hate us because we revere life?

That is a fallacy. Most Catholics I know are pro-death penalty. Being anti-abortion is not pro-life.

Dom - Beth is trying to say she feels discriminated against and really you can't prove her wrong. If you feel it, it's true. She is not alone here. I feel it too. I felt slammed by the statements of Ann Marie Marcotte (not so much the other blogger, Shakespeare's sister). It is her right out here on the Internet, to make such statements. However, when John Edwards makes her his "official blogger" he is endorsing her and that is a problem for me. A person who wants to put himself out there as a serious candidate for the office of POTUS should not associate his candidacy with such prejudice.
In any arguement of this type, you must put yourself in the place of the person being slammed. Beth and I feel our religion was being attacked. You can't say we don't feel it. You can say you don't, but then you describe yourself as ex-Catholic.

Jimi - unfortunately many Catholics cherry pick the parts they like. I believe Beth speaking of the Church policy and the official Catholic stance is prolife and anti-death penalty.

it isnt that it is "ok" to slam the church, it is that it is not "ok" to suppress that.
Why is it ok to slam islam?
What is it ok to slam gays
why is it ok to slam the president
why is it ok to slam the war
why is it ok to slam me
because this is america
and it isnt about it being ok, it's about what ISN'T ok.

I thought that Democrats championed people of any religion, any background, any race. Boy, was I wrong! I look around the blogosphere and see blogs like Pandagon, where Amanda (ex-official blogmistress of John (I hate Catholics) Edwards) goes on and on forever about the Catholic Church forcing women to have babies.

Politics has nothing to do with it, ignorance and hate pervade every aspect of life because it's a human failing, not an ideological failing. There are plenty of hateful bigots on the right too, by the way. Also, you just slandered John Edwards, which is legally actionable in the United States. Smoooth.

And then, there are people here on newsvine.com who hate the Catholic Church.

As long as it's full of bigots who preach discrimination and control, yeah, there are going to be people everywhere that hate the Catholic church.

What happened to the liberal idea of tolerance?

What happened to the idea of this not being a liberal or conservative issue at all. Way to smear an entire class of people for no reason.

Or is hating Catholics the one safe bigotry left to liberals? After all, I have not seen any nuns chopping the heads off of people.

And now you're slandering them as well smearing them, wow, talk about ignorance. You know why I wrote the stuff I did? Because Donohue and Catholics are hypocrites, and you're proving my point swimmingly.

Catholics are pro-life - is that the problem?

Catholics are anti-choice and bigots, that's the problem. You can run your life any way you see fit, but get your nose out of ours.

Catholics are pretty darn charitable - and you don't have to be Catholic to be a recipient of Catholic Community Services, you just have to have a need.

Unless you're gay, or living a life style the church otherwise disapproves of, then you hit the curb. That kind of disgusting discrimination is actually legal in the U.S. in the name of protecting religion. Hopefully we can begin to change that moving forward, so that all discrimination is illegal.

Or maybe they hate us because we believe there is such a thing as sin?

Hate you no, think it's a silly concept from a bygone era, yes.

I don't know.

That is painfully obvious. Maybe you should actually learn about some of this stuff before asking these questions.

But I do know that I'm no longer a Democrat. I'm no longer a liberal - why on earth would I want to be identified with a bunch of people who hate me for my religion. Who hate all Catholics?

If you weren't some sect of Christianity, you'd find life on the right a hell of a lot worse. Try being a Muslim, if you think this is tough.

This is cross-posted on my blog, ...

It looks like it.

I'm not what one would call a liberal, but the reason it's okay to 'slam' the catholic church [or any church for that matter] is because they persist with their faith, which was voted on 1700 years ago but harms people today, despite all evidence to the contrary. You wish to take rights from homosexuals, even after a number of priests have been found to be such. You impede scientific research. You lobby the government in an attempt to make this a Christian nation.

Tolerance, like respect, should be reserved for those who deserve it.